No dedicated servers.. The future?

eXg. Jago-Vs-Fulgore · Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:00 am

Am making a copy of this post there for years later i can point out that i called This.

"All future online pc games will not support Dedicated servers in the future"

If i had to guess a time line i'd say this will take full effect within the next 2-3 years. Its gonna really crack everyones head open once doom 4 release & theres no dedicated server. THAT SIR.... That sir is when ur gonna know shi_z REAL!.

Id software are already showing signs of going down this same road.

No dedicated servers for rage

Umm.. why.?? why would Id Software do this.. Hmm out of all company's there riding the bandwagon now?.. they know more than anyone how important Dedicated servers are to us pc gamers. But nope!.. there just a piece of the pie of the Sob's that got together & decided that they must shift the pc gaming experience closer to the consoles because that's where the money is...
All to fishy & leads one to think, this no dedicated server business isn't going any where & will continue with major future pc releases.

So everyone should get there pannies out a bunch & get gaming.

Or Quit & give gaming a rest. But understand this

developers dont need to sale pc games to survive

They've realized it & so should you. Company's know they make more money from consoles games. & there tring to move us pc games closer to that.. Which is sad but "You cant stop what there about to do". Am not saying "GIVE In to there hold' but what i am saying is..

Enjoy it while it lasts. May not be a pc market at all in a few years

So buy mw2.. while you still can play hot title like that on the damn pc.

seacrest Out!

LMFAO

supercat1 · Post by **supercat1** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:15 am

hate to break this to everyone ... But id hasn't released a relevant game for a while. They make games with outdated and questionable game mechanics.

I do not see why valve would remove dedicated servers from any of their future games where it makes sense to have them. Even if they did, as long as the future games use source it will be easy for the community to add them in.

and as sim pointed out in my thread about this very same topic ("more fuel for the fire") rage is closer to l4d and borderlands than team fortress 2 -- with only 4 people playing cooperatively there is no need for dedicated servers. As soon as you introduce pvp dedicated servers become more of an issue. Fps games suffer the most as accuracy and wepon fire are very dependent on response time between server and client. A game closer to an rts or mmo style (time spell casts and attacks etc.) can occur on slower connections because client to server time lapses can be accomodated and taken into account with skill activation and execution.

for serious pc gaming to survive games have to continue to ship with dedicated server support or at the very least lan ability (which can be tricked into a sort of server browser/connection system). And I think companies like valve and dice recognize this. Dice has even gone so far as to announce that they will have dedicated servers in battlefield bad company2.

eXg. Jago-Vs-Fulgore · Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:24 am

exg. supercat1 wrote:hate to break this to everyone ... But id hasn't released a relevant game for a while. They make games with outdated and questionable game mechanics.

I do not see why valve would remove dedicated servers from any of their future games where it makes sense to have them. Even if they did, as long as the future games use source it will be easy for the community to add them in.

and as sim pointed out in my thread about this very same topic ("more fuel for the fire") rage is closer to l4d and borderlands than team fortress 2 -- with only 4 people playing cooperatively there is no need for dedicated servers. As soon as you introduce pvp dedicated servers become more of an issue. Fps games suffer the most as accuracy and wepon fire are very dependent on response time between server and client. A game closer to an rts or mmo style (time spell casts and attacks etc.) can occur on slower connections because client to server time lapses can be accomodated and taken into account with skill activation and execution.

for serious pc gaming to survive games have to continue to ship with dedicated server support or at the very least lan ability (which can be tricked into a sort of server browser/connection system). And I think companies like valve and dice recognize this. Dice has even gone so far as to announce that they will have dedicated servers in battlefield bad company2.

Nice find about the Bad company 2 having the dedicated servers cat. This is good news & lets a pc gamer know that "YES" we do have some developers fighting to keep pc gaming alive.

Id software is pissing me off with there talks of no dedicated servers for rage. Not that i care about rage like that but These are symptoms that they might do the same with DOOM 4.

& that is when the world is gonna end for pc gaming for me

simulation · Post by **simulation** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:31 am

eXg. Jago-Vs-Fulgore wrote:Id software is pissing me off with there talks of no dedicated servers for rage. Not that i care about rage like that but These are symptoms that they might do the same with DOOM 4.

& that is when the world is gonna end for pc gaming for me

The QuakeLive team will be involved in the networking aspects of Doom 4. id have already said that D4 MP will be significantly better out of the box than Q4 MP was.

Don't forget that even with D3 the MP was going to be peer to peer and they went back to client-server:

http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/articles/531/531027p1.html

I think the premise behind their p2p implementation at the time was that it was true p2p; no one gamer was the server; they all were (unlike MW2, etc where one player acts as the host). As Robert Duffy said, this got too complex so they went back to client-server as that is what they already knew.

But that was back in 2003/2004 and they were in a hurry to get the MP in at the last minute (it was a very late addition to the D3 project).

id Software have some phenominally intelligent and capable guys. If they choose to go the p2p route then I hope they can get something workable.

The practical worries I have are:
* deployment of mods / custom maps is harder in this envrionment
* p2p requires more upstream bandwidth, which can be an issue for many players (like me on VM's cable where the upstream is crap)

eXg. apo · Post by **eXg. apo** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:50 am

Not sure what you uys are on about, but basicly it sounds like it sucks.

supercat1 · Post by **supercat1** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:23 am

simulation wrote:id Software have some phenominally intelligent and capable guys. If they choose to go the p2p route then I hope they can get something workable.

quoted for truth. carmack is freaking amazing. which is why i think id should go the route of pure middleware developers instead of trying to produce new ips or iterations of old ips. or, they need to spin off the game development side so that their engine work can be separate from the game dev side.

simulation · Post by **simulation** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:18 am

exg. supercat1 wrote:
simulation wrote:id Software have some phenominally intelligent and capable guys. If they choose to go the p2p route then I hope they can get something workable.
quoted for truth. carmack is freaking amazing. which is why i think id should go the route of pure middleware developers instead of trying to produce new ips or iterations of old ips. or, they need to spin off the game development side so that their engine work can be separate from the game dev side.

I think their recent expansion will help in this respect. They have a group of harcore egg-heads who are responisble for the engine and tech and the QL team are earmarked for networking expertise. They've now expanded enough so their game teams are distinct from the tech teams. I think this will help drive the quality of the engine and its usability forward. Only downside is that the next idTech5 generation is a bunch more complex and they're not planning on holding the hands of modders. Unlike Epic who have just released their entire development kit for UE3 for free (given certain sales limits) (see www.udk.com). Thats pretty cool stuff, especially dropping into the game within the editor and running around!

supercat1 · Post by **supercat1** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:15 pm

if i were creative (i'm just an engineer) i would do the leg work to make a game. but i'm much more interested in writing the engine and letting others work the game magic.

simulation · Post by **simulation** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:41 pm

exg. supercat1 wrote:if i were creative (i'm just an engineer) i would do the leg work to make a game. but i'm much more interested in writing the engine and letting others work the game magic.

I have that "problem" too; I'm more a systems programmer than anything else.

supercat1 · Post by **supercat1** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:55 pm

i actually had a working 3d render a while back. i still have the code and could quickly bring myself back up to speed. it was written in opengl. it was pretty primitive. it didn't have any shaders or even a scene map. but as a first effort i felt pretty good about it as it did have a decent model and texture control structure. it would be nice to get back into it ... but not sure when i'll have time again.

Post by **SunTzu** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:16 pm

PC gaming is always fluctuating i think once the economy is stable again PC gaming will rise aswell

offcourse this would require a GOOD game that i havent seen since ages

eXg. djgooky · Post by **eXg. djgooky** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:56 pm

you guys have to look at "big bother" with the laws that are taking place with the internet, i think that ID, and others. are waiting to see if the internet is going to be controlled by the IP, therefor they don't have to worry IP's adding charge to there games so it can go thru your IP. now its still in talks about the internet. but who knows x box live might be part of your cable bill? really any thing can happen with everyone steps we take. i am not sure if you understand my point of view. but there's a big SS that we don't see. IMO

supercat1 · Post by **supercat1** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:04 pm

AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! dedicated servers moded into mw2!!!!!!!!!

http://www.destructoid.com/modern-warfa ... 5250.phtml

now, i'm at work, so you guys need to search out where this mod is and link to it and let the serious gaming begin!!!!!!!! HELLZ YEAH!!!!!!

sorry but i'm really excited. i was talking to camel about this exact thing last week -- they left the config file as editable, the engine is the same as mw1's, it was only a matter of time before that stuff was unlocked. God bless pc gaming.

Post by **eXg. Pun1sher** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:10 am

Hmmm, to me this speaks VOLUMES. I re-read the article and the theoretical possibillity of VAC bans, but I think it's VERY encouraging.